.300 whisper crimp die?

[snowhack]

I'm new to the site. Howdy. Pretty nice site.

I'm getting into .300 Whisper and reloading it. I got the Redding two die set. I'm making brass from once fired .223s. Its going through a semi-auto (AR-15) so I need to crimp the bullets in. I can't find a crimp die. I'm guessing I may be able to use a 7.62x39 crimp die, but I don't want to buy it until I know for sure. Will it work or is there a specific die for this cal.? Thanks.

[Quarterbore]

I use Redding dies and they have a built in crimping ring in the seating die. I have not previously crimped my 300/221 loads but I will need to start with my latest project...

http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/riflepistolsets.html

I have not seen a taper crimp made for the 300 Whisper...

[pug]

The Redding dies have a built in crimper but the cases have to be 221 fireball length (1.4") to use it and of course the bullets need a cannelure. Unless you know your chamber will take the 1.4" brass you should not trim to that length for safety. If you are using 223 brass trimmed to 1.355" then most are using the M1 carbine Lee factory crimper I think. It puts a wide crimp on but it doesn't take much and another member posted a neat trick to move the crimp up higher so it isn't as wide. You can machine off the shell holder and bottom of die to make the Redding crimper work with shorter brass but I haven't experienced any problems using the Lee factory crimper.

[snowhack]

I didn't relize the seater had a crimper,Cool. I will look into the M-1 crimper just to get a good solid crimp. I plan on using 220+ Gr slugs. Thanks.

[too_many_hobbies]

Okay, I am confused, again!:confused: I thought I read on here that you do not need to crimp. I am using the 2-die Redding set in a Dillon RL550B press, Keith_Davis brass that measures 1.355", Sierra 220 Match King bullets, in an AR-15. If I need to crimp, please tell me what to do or what to get...

[pug]

My rule of thumb is when I get close to 150 gr in bullet weight and will be using it in a semi I start thinking about crimping. The reason behind it is a 150 grain bullet has enough mass that if slammed into a chamber by the action the bullet can become unseated. This will cause pressure to drop in a subsonic round low enough that the bullet will not exit the barrel . Many variables involved such as bullet weight, length, neck tension and action speed. Your bullet may be long enough to not come out even if it wanted to. If you have a semi the easiest thing to do is measure overall length and hand cycle one from the magazine. Remeasure it and see if it is acceptable to you. Non semis are not as big a problem although there are those who crimp for everything. Personally if I am trying to put five into a .1" group I wouldn't consider crimping but then I haven't come close to that with a semi yet.

[too_many_hobbies]

Okay, another question or two, if snowhack will allow me to use his post...

The 220 MatchKings do not have a cannelure. I have read several places to not attempt to crimp a bullet without a cannelure. Does the M1 crimper perform some other kind of crimp that does not require a cannelure?

Assuming my 300 Fireball will allow 1.400" brass, should I make some new 1.400" brass so that I would have more case actually touching the bullet to help hold the bullet in place?

[Spook]

I dont crimp anything :confused: ,'speshly anything without a cannelure, bolt or AR, never had an issue with feeding or bullets coming unseated....There's better than 1/2 inch of a 220 rn behind the cannelure ,the heavy end t'boot.
Who's bullets are coming loose?

[pug]

Spook this is one of those threads that may take on a life of its own. I have had bullets come unseated in a couple of different calibers however none in the 300/221. As you stated because of the depth of the shanks seated it is unlikely that one would unseat with one chambering. However they can move when chambered in in auto and how much can only be determined by measuring it. I have measured .025" to .050". You may run enough neck tension that they don't move.

too many hobbies the Lee factory crimper is a collet crimper and will form its own cannelure when squeezing the bullet. The Redding dies have a roll crimper that rolls the lip over into the cannelure. Before worrying load a dummy round and drop the bolt on it. If it moves too much then crimp it if not don't bother. Accuracy wise I prefer not to crimp. Factory ammunition is crimped because it gives a more uniform start pressure which improves accuracy even though there may be some slight load variations. Your handloads are suppose to be perfect. :)

[Spook]

Pug, I do crimp 5.56.For some reason when the powder charge is almost half the weight of the bullet it makes sense. But Whispers and even the 458 SOCOM (405 grains) never slide up and I figured if the did they would stop at the rifling :confused: ?? Which when I load for my F-Class and Bench rifles is a good thing, even jammed into the rifling up .050. I learn somethin' almost every day :smile: if I stay awake.

[kurtz]

I was always under the impression that crimping for auto loaders was to keep the bullet from being pushed into the neck as it strikes the feed ramp and/or barrel extension lugs.....before I smoothed out the ramp/barrel extension lugs on my SSK AR I got deep scratches in the bullet and gouges in the neck of the brass in everything from 125's to 220's....I test slam chambered several hundred different rounds checking for marks on the bullet/brass and measuring overall length at the ogive, never had one round move in or out.....

[pug]

Yep with my 6PPCs the bullets are in the rifling and thats where I like them. In fact if I remember right the the .197" group I shot with the AR was with the bullet on the rifling with no crimp. Course there wasn't much bullet seated in the neck but as long as it stayed there till I got the bolt closed I was happy.

[pug]

Oops Kurtz you slipped in there before I could finish typing. Dunno what to say. I just set a 180 gr round nose (which really rides tight in the feed ramps) .220" in to a sized piece of brass and maually fed it from the magazine and it unseated .008". The brass was from Davis which has .004" neck tension so once again I know the bullet will move. One other difference is whether your chamber is tight or not. My 300 fireball chambers freely with the shoulder stopping the case movement not the body.

[snowhack]

I don't mind the jump-ons.......


I use the Lee factory crimp die on my .270 Win. (launched via a Model 700) I don't see much diff in accuracy, crimp and no crimp, as I don't crimp my match loads. I do know of heavy slugs moving in cases that may have a loose neck...in autos. The 240gr Match King comes to mind.
I seated a couple of 180gr Hornadys in my brass and they go in pretty tight. Tighter than my .270s. I use .223 military brass and the necks are formed down after cutting the case to 1.40" or so (final trim of 1.35"). I keep the expander pin in regardless because I think it makes a more uniform neck shape. My seated neck diameter is .330". I don't have the crimp die yet so I don't have the crimped measurement. If its diff that is. I ordered it today.

What were we talking about again?

[kurtz]

when I was working on the ramp I would feed the rounds from the magazine dropping the bolt with the bolt release....I'm using Hornady dies and .223 brass and end up with the same as you .004 neck tension, unless using Hawk and one other bullet that I can't think of the name..I end up with .005 neck tension with those....never had any move chambering....I probably get a little carried away realoading, nitrile gloves, de-oil bullets, one tumble to polish brass..another tumble to de-oil brass.....OCD

[Foxfire]

I use a 30 carbine Lee crimp die with a 3/8 fender washer sitting around the bullet. Took my calipers and went to H--- D--- and miked a few different thicknesses. I can put my crimp any place I like.
I even drilled a 1/8 hole at opposite edges and suspended it next to the die so to be out of the way. WORKS GREAT FOR ME

Fox out!

[snowhack]

I got my M1 carbine die and started crimping the cartridges I loaded already. I didn't see a large crimp band. If what I saw was the crimp band it was only a milimeter thick. I trim cases to 1.34" is this why or am I doing something wrong?
I tighten the crimp die to the shell holder and then about 3/4 of a turn or so more. Seems to work fine.