rounds sticking in chamber

[interceptor]

Someone with more reloading expierence than me, PLEASE HELP ME OUT!

Got my brass in from David Davis and I'm trying out seating some Sierra 155gn hpbt Palma Match. Load is 17gn of H110, o.a.l. is 2.20". Problem is, the round sticks, really sticks, in the chamber. Soooo, I'm thinking the long taper is contacting the lands, so I try seating one a little deeper. I go down (in steps) to 2.060", same story. Then I'm thinking maybe my neck o.d. is too big, so I pull out the decapping pin and run a new piece of brass through the full lenght resize die (brass is already primed from D.D.) and seat another bullet starting back at 2.20". Same thing again, stuck like Chuck.

So what's going on? Any one got ideas?

[320pf]

Interceptor,

I had a similar experience when my upper was brand spanking new. If I remember correctly, other people have also had similar experiences with new uppers.

First one question, have you tried to chamber just the brass without any bullet seated? Then I suggest you seat a bullet in the brass and then pull it (the bullet) and see how just the brass fits. This should give you an idea if you chamber too tight.

Here is what I did. I cleaned my barrel with white gas and a bronze brush and the again with Hoppes... I mean a really good cleaning. (I am not trying to insult you... that last time I recommended this to some who was having the same problem, they responded like I was asking to do bad things to their wife and/or mother :))

With my barrel, before my first shot I ran a patch with Break Free through the barrel. It came out pretty clean... so off the the range I went with my first reloads. I fired the first round, a good "safe" starting load, and the bolt cycled but left the brass in the chamber. I used a cleaning rod to get the brass out the the barrel... it was all stained with a black residue. Any way to make a long story short, my barrel had a pretty thick coating of cozmoline in it and once I gave it a good cleaning the problem went away.

One other thing. The QuickLoad calculations that I had Randall at AR Barrels.Com do for me suggest that you have a pretty good chance of making major with that load. However, you are very close to max (~55000 psi). I suggest that you start at about 15.5 gr and work up by 0.5 gr increments.

You might do a bit better with W296. I found that in my gun it works better that H110. I have also had good experience with Hodgdon Lil'Gun.

Good Luck

320pf

[interceptor]

"As the world turns..."

Day two. Talked with Redding customer service/tech and he suggested that I take a loaded round and color it completely with a Sharpie magic marker, chamber it, extract and see where the contact points are. Did it, and bullet itself is contacting the chamber, marks are right at 0.210" from the case mouth. Model 1 suggests that I send it back to them so they can test and evaluate.

And I was soooo looking foreward to test firing this weekend!:mad:

Before I send it back, as per your suggestion I will give it a hell of a cleaning and see if that helps.

[pug]

I got my barrel today and had a little problem myself. The headspace checked ok but when I tried one of the dummy rounds it wouldn't chamber. After checking a few things I tried one of the .223 cases I had resized and to my delight it chambered fine. To make a long story short none of the preprimed brass that I bought will chamber but if run through the fl sizer die with expander (modified) it chambers fine and after measuring it appears my sizer bumps the shoulder back just a hair further. Just more food for thought and I hope you get yours going.

[interceptor]

Interceptor,

Here is what I did. I cleaned my barrel with white gas and a bronze brush and the again with Hoppes... I mean a really good cleaning. (I am not trying to insult you... that last time I recommended this to some who was having the same problem, they responded like I was asking to do bad things to their wife and/or mother :))


Good Luck

320pf

Well, i tried it last night and it didn't work worth a damn. Rounds still sticking. In fact, after the cleaning last night I loaded another dummy round --no powder, just bullet and case -- chambered it and when I went to eject it the case came out but the bullet was left stuck in the chamber.

:mad: .......

[320pf]

Interceptor,

That stinks! It sounds like there may be little or no lead in your chamber. Have you tried to chamber just resized brass, sans bullet?

320pf

[interceptor]

Yeah, brass goes in and out with no problem. Talked with my smith today about my problem. Next week I'm gonna bring it back and he wants to try a reamer, clean up the throat a bit. Till then I guess I'll just have to solace myself with another gun, I guess. I did just get a new CZ 452 American in .17HMR, so I can go try that one out.

[keith__davis]

Hey, David Davis here you got the brass from me and i need to make this right but not sure its a brass problem, I got your messgae and you resized it ?? that should do it, but given your bullets are pulling out of the case tells me that its your chamber. I'll send you more brass free of charge that has been checked in a SSK Inc. headspace gage just the brass you have has been. if you think it will help. Also you said you have a gunsmith looking at it, I'm willling to loan you a set of reamers and headspace gages for him to clean up the chamber or I'm willing to do it for you. But you got the brass from me and I'm feeling bad about this, drop me an email, I'll do what ever i can to help.

keith__davis@yahoo.com

[interceptor]

Thanks! Slight correction to your earlier statement: Yes, I did get the brass from you, BUT I don't feel it's your need or responsibility to "make it right". The general concensus is that, like you said, it's not the brass. From the marks the upper/barrel leaves on bullets, there is a physical problem with the weapon. (see earlier post, this thread) My gunsmith thinks we need to work on the throat of the chamber, and he says he's got something to do that with. Before we do that, however, I will ask him if the reamer you offered would do the job better. I should find out about Tuesday. I appreciate the offer.

[keith__davis]

You paid good money for that barrel think about returning and let them fix it.

[320pf]

Interceptor,

I have one last suggestion. Take are full length resized case and cut the case neck (section in half) parallel to the long axis of the case and stop about 3mm from the shoulder. Next seat a bullet long and then gently chamber the dummy round. When the bullet contacts the rifling, the modified case should allow the bullet to move back into the case but still have enough "grip" so that when you gently remove the case the bullet should stay with the case. This will give you and your gun smith an idea on how much lead/throat your chamber has.

You should not have to pay for fixing a badly made barrel. I would send it back to Model-1. If they are not willing or can not make it right get your money back and try Tony at Del-Ton.com. He built my upper and I am pretty happy with it.


Good Luck and Good shooting

P.S.
Interceptor, I think I came across a couple of your post over on enos' forum.

320pf

[Artful]

or just take a cleaning rod and run down into the barrel and with a sharpie mark it on the closed bolt - this will give you length with no brass in it.

then put a bullet in the lead and measure the length again making sure you have the rod on the tip of the bullet. I usually do this by having the barrel vertical and putting the point into threaded portion of the rod and taking a segment of a field rod and pushing the bullet up until it stops then making the barrel. this will give you total maximum length the cartridge can be (as measured with the tip in the rod) and then back off .010 or so to give the bullet a little run.

It does sound like you have a short thoat - you could try loading wth some 110 gr carbine bullets or 125 spirepoints. Was this chambered by your gunsmith or the barrel maker?

[interceptor]

Nah, it came directly from Model 1. Yeah, if it was different circumstances I'd send it back to them. Still might after tomorrow, but I'm getting ahead of myself. Maybe I should clarify that the gunsmithing doesn't cost me anything. I work part time at the shop, and have been looong time friends with the smith. Most of the projects I have I end up doing myself, or as much of them as I can. What I don't know I learn as we go. Soooo, I actually have an ulterior motive for doing this repair myself, so I can learn how.

Although, from playing around with it tonight I realised that the chamber itself it tight. When inserting an unloaded brass, it's .... sticky. I would imagine we'd try a .223 chamber reamer first, followed by a .308 throater. Right now I'm guessing, my smith will know what to actually do. At any rate we'll check it out thoroughly before anything actually gets done and it still may just go back to Model 1 for an overhaul.

And 320, you probably do see me on benos.com, it's my favorite place. Try glocktalk for entertainment!

Fingers crossed...

[interceptor]

Hey, David Davis. Also you said you have a gunsmith looking at it, I'm willling to loan you a set of reamers and headspace gages for him to clean up the chamber or I'm willing to do it for you. But you got the brass from me and I'm feeling bad about this, drop me an email, I'll do what ever i can to help.

keith__davis@yahoo.com



Mr Davis, right now I'd love to get those reamers from you! Please drop me a line so we can set somthing up.

Ken

[keith__davis]

I sent you an email, sure you can use my reamers and headspaces gages or I'll even do it for you will only cost you shipping to get your upper back to you, i need you happy and shooting my brass,

[interceptor]

Now that's one good dude!

[sniperx]

So, did you get it fixed??

What bullet were you using??

I have loaded a mess of 240 SMK's, and they stick just like you mentioned.
I was able to put the bullet in another .020 and it seems to have fixed it.
I can see on the bullet that the free bore is tight and marking the bullet were
I painted it with a magic marker. I had noticed them sticking a little when I first started messing with the 300 fireball, but did not think too much of it until I read this thread. Several of the other bullets I use seem to be just fine,
like ballistic tips.

[AlcoholicusMaximus]

I also have a Model 1 300/221 upper that requires shorter than average bullet seating.I must seat to 2.195" to keep 220gr SMK's from sticking. Model 1 was at a loss to explain. Nor did they Indicate that anyone else had this problem.After reading through all the ammo posts, there are probably a few others who are having this problem. Having said all that, what could be the downside to seating .020 or so deeper than spec?

[interceptor]

Sorry guys, I got the problem fixed and kinda forgot about this thread. Mr. davis sent me his reamers and we used them to great effect. I was kinda suprised/dismayed at the shavings that came out of there, but all is well now. I will admit to being dissapointed at Model 1, and I will tell you that I am not doing business with them again, nor will I reccomend them, due to the quality and lack of QC they demonstrated with the product I purchased from them. Anyway... My upper now chambers anything I've ever loaded for it, from supersonic 155 Sierra's to subsonic 208 Hornadys. Best of all I finally got off my butt and got my revocable trust set up and got my supressor in in less than a month.

What a joy to shoot! This is my first supressor, in fact the first one I've ever pulled the trigger on. Hate to say it, but major cool factor. Out of a gun club of 1108 members ( I know exactly as I am on the board of directors) I've not seen anyone else with a can and I get a lot of questions. Not sure I actually like that part, but I'm having a ball doing the shooting so far.

I was initially having an accuracy problem, but after my first serious range saession trying to get it dialed in at 100 yards for a baseline I realised after about 10 rounds that my barrel nut was a little loose. I had about a 5" grouping going at 100 yards, and my adjustments didn't make sense. I've since pulled everything apart and tightened it up another hole, good and snug now, no play. (Don't cringe, it's not too tight) I hope to get out later today and put it on paper again at 100 yards, then go to 200 for a real zero, as this is the range I will get the most personally from the gun.

I'm giving some serious thought to switching to a mil dot reticle to make the hold over/under easier in the future. Still getting used to a multiple reticle optic, as I only have one now and it's on my .308 tac rifle.

More info to come later, but be patient 'cause I've got a lot of irons in the fire and despite my girth I'm spread kinda thin. (USPSA, Steel Challenge, 3-gun, now getting into MOR, still playing with skeet/5 stand, hmmmm, something else.... oh yeah, WORK)

[kdiver58]

I had the same problem with round sticking in my M1S upper. I put a bullet
all by itself into the camber and used a gauging rod I made to measure to the bullet tip then removed the bullet and measured back to the bolt face. My max OAL with a 220 SMK and 175 SMK is 2.185.. That's all folks

[Flewis]

Interceptor, how much did you have to cut the chamber and what was the final length? How long of a cartridge can you chamber?

Thanks. I have a M1S upper on the way and hope I don't have to do this.

[interceptor]

Can't answer your question accurately about the ammount of cutting. I just watched the process, gunsmith did it. My load length is 2.215", chambers/extracts fine.