300 whisper bolt-gun recommendations

[kurtz]

I am looking for recommendations on building a 300 whisper bolt-gun...I am thinking about using a Howa 1500 .223 action....any suggestions are much appreciated.

[tp555]

I liked the howa action. A metal trigger guard and beefy extractor.You shouldn't have any problem. regards.

[kurtz]

tp555....thanks for the info....on the subject: rate of twist and barrel length.....I would like to shoot sonic and sub-sonic loads....on the low end 220gr at 1050fps and on the high end 125 to 150gr at around 2000fps.....is the 1:8 a good all-around or do I need a different twist with the 125s and 150s at 2000fps.....what about barrel length??

[700X]

Hey kurtz,

I'm interested to see the responses to your last post. Should be some interesting differences of opinions. I have personal experience with Howa actions, and my rifle (a Weatherby Vanguard in .25/06) shot VERY well, so your choice should prove to be a good one, unless you have a 700 action laying around. If you do but don't want to use it, I'll give you a little somethin' for it!

Anyway, for the twist info. I'm betting you will get responses that may include it's not possible to do both things with the same barrel. My opinion is it depends on what you plan to do with the rifle and what degree of accurracy you will be happy with. You will have to choose a fast twist if you want to shoot big bullets, but what I am not sure of is how much accuracy potential you will lose by spinning 125gr bullets that fast. If you're just wanting to shoot deer out to 150 yards it may be a moot point, but like I said, I'm not sure.

Based on the general rule that you don't want to spin a bullet any faster than necessary to stabilize it, the light bullets in a fast twist barrel will push the limits considerably, but let's all see what kind of info comes back and we'll learn together. Good luck, X

[kurtz]

X...thanks for your experience with the Howa (sorry, no 700 short-actions in the safe)....the rifle that I would like to build would use primarily suppressed sub-sonic 220s.....the 125s or 150s would be for the occasional deer or hog hunting trip at around 100 to 150 yards....one of my concerns is that the faster/lighter 125-150 bullets over time may degrade the performance/accuracy of the barrel to a noticable level when using the 220s.....I realize that nothing lasts forever but I don't want to tear up a barrel out of my own ignorance, I would rather build (2) purpose built rifles, hope thats not necessary......hopefully someone will write in with experiences on a 1:8 barrel using heavy and light loads....

[700X]

You'll only be using 10-20gr of powder, so you'll have to TRY to shoot the barrel out, so I wouldn't let that worry affect your decision. I would bet a lot of money that whatever barrel you pick will still be punching moa groups long after you start "pushing up daisies". I doubt a fast twist will show any problems with your pig shooting, but like I said, there are people here WAY more knowledgeable than me with personal experience to back their opinion, so you'll get the advice you need.

[tp555]

I have made 30/221 barrels for over 10 years. My reamer has a '95 date marked
on it.Nobody ever bad mouthed the 1 in 8 twist. Some guys do 1/4" groups with
handload tweeking in an ar. One guy got 2 1/2" at 200yds with a 10 inch barrel
just screwing around. He bought another. I'd definately go with a 1 in 8 twist.
regards.

[kurtz]

if 1:8 twist is the standard in twist, what about length?.....16"??....the accuracy of a 2 1/2" group at 200yds with the 10" AR that tp wrote back about is awesome for a SBR...If MOA or close to it can be maintained with a 10 to 12" bolt-gun another tax stamp may be in the future for this project...

on the subject of dies: I purchased a set of Hornady 300 Whisper dies from SSK....I have loaded about 300 rounds of various sonic and sub-sonic loads anticipating the build of this bolt-action project...at the time of purchase of the dies from SSK I also picked up 100 rounds of loaded 220gr sub-sonic from them....I have not asked them about this, but I noticed a difference in the sharpness of the neck to case shoulder...the SSK loaded rounds have a noticeably sharper shoulder than what I have been able to form with the Hornady dies....Redding is the most common name I hear mentioned during 300 whisper reloading discussions...Any similar experience with the Hornady dies not making a sharp shoulder?...

[700X]

My dies are Redding, but the shoulder isn't real sharp until fire-formed with the first shot. I make my brass from Rem. .223 brass. You're mighty brave loading that many rounds before you know for sure the brass is sized small enough to chamber in your un-made chamber. My contender would not close completely with a case full length sized with the Redding sizing die, so I had to run them through a small base .223 die before the first firing. That is most likely due to the fact the brass was once-fired in a .223 before I cut it down, so hopefully you'll be OK, 'cause it would not be fun to pull that many bullets!

Keep us informed. X

[kurtz]

thanks for the feedback X.....I took one of the loaded SSK 220 rounds, un-loaded it, measured the case dimensions and followed suit...The rounds that I got from SSK are stamped L C and what looks like 8 4....
(I'm guessing Lake City .223 brass, don't know for sure)....I formed my brass from un-fired .223 Winchester....I cut a set of aluminum jaws for a three jaw lathe chuck with the correct taper to match the .223 brass and a back stop to set the repeatable depth of the brass in the jaws the same each time....rough cut the case length on the lathe....form the brass...final trim, and so on...I'm with you, I hope the case length is ok...if not, sucks being me...thanks again for the feedback...

[spmorgan]

Hi Kurtz,
I just finished building a 300/221 on a weatherby vanguard action, it has a 20" MAB barrel with 1:8 twist and has a Boyds thumbhole stock finished in oil and it is a lovely rifle. The actions are very strong and cheap and at the moment I am testing it with 220g soft points for subsonic and 125g ballistics tips for supersonic which are running about 2200fps. Great to look at and even better to shoot. Shane

[d-mon]

Show us some pictures if you can.

Thanks.
ND

[kurtz]

spmorgan, thanks for the info on the vanguard/howa action....sounds like a really great project....if you have had a chance to shoot many of the 125s please let me know the load data...bullet/charge/accuracy....I think I have decided to move in one direction for right now with my 300 whisper project...super-sonic....I ended up buying a CZ527 .223 varmit over the weekend as the base for my 300 whisper project....started taking it down today to re-barrel the action....hope to have it ready to go in a few weeks depending on barrel delivery time....

[spmorgan]

Kurtz, I have only test fired the 125g ballistic tips to work out my velocities, havnt hunted with them yet. I have been using Adi powders which are Australian, (where I am from) the one being AR 2205, its the fastest handgun powder they make. I started at 17.2g which was about 1980fps and worked my way up by .1g to 17.6g which is averaging about 2200fps with no signs of pressure on the primers. Im happy with that even though I could probably load a bit hotter if I wanted but that satisfies me. I tried to upload a photo but it keeps going to big and Im having troubles reducing it, I will keep playing and see what I can do. Still working on my subsonics, started at 9.5g which was around 760fps and worked up to 10.3 which is averaging between 1040 & 1150fps so Im still playing with the loads and bullet seating. The subs are 220g soft points. I have been using cci450 magnum primers for both subs and super loads with no problems. Shane

[Scoop]

.........but what I am not sure of is how much accuracy potential you will lose by spinning 125gr bullets that fast. If you're just wanting to shoot deer out to 150 yards it may be a moot point, but like I said, I'm not sure.

Based on the general rule that you don't want to spin a bullet any faster than necessary to stabilize it, the light bullets in a fast twist barrel will push the limits considerably, but let's all see what kind of info comes back and we'll learn together. Good luck, X

I'm using 125 gr Nosler BT's over 18.5 gr of H110 in my 6.5-twist PacNor barrel and getting better than 3/4 MOA. Usually right at half MOA. This load averages 2300 fps in this barrel. Go figure.

[patwa]

Kurtz,
couple of things. First, just found your PM (a couple of months late), did not even know about them, sent one back a couple of days ago. I go out all the time to try to get my 300-221 tuned up for hunting so I would guess you go to a different range. There is a third one of us that I know of in Lake Charles who shoots the round, so maybe one day we can meet at the range and trade info.

I have two ARs in the round. The first one has a 1:10 twist and is shooting less than MOA, but 18.2 gr of H110 behind a Nosler 125 ballistic tip is max, at just over 2100 fps. The other one has an Olympic Arms upper with a 1:8 twist, and that one is giving me fits. It was shooting patterns more than groups with the 125 gr bullets. I finally got it to shoot barely 1 1-2 inch groups with 18 gr H110 and a 130 gr SSP bullet. I guess that twist may like heavier bullets. I have loaded some 150 and 180 gr bullets, but have not had a chance to try them yet, work seems to get in the way of my hobbies.

I was hunting last weekend with the 300-221. We have a Texas level 2 Managed Land Deer Permit which allows us to take whitetail deer early. I shot five deer and two pigs with it, all one shot kills. The first deer shot in the chest ran 150 yards or so, the next four I shot in the neck because I am not very good at tracking wounded deer. One of the pigs was 95 pounds, shot through the shoulders and dropped on the spot. I have not recoved any bullets, but there was an exit wound on a smaller pig. It was shot at about 80 yards and after travelling about 16-18 inches including hitting the spine there was only a small exit wound, so I am not sure there is any expansion of the 125 gr ballistic tip. The exit wounds on the neck shots were a little over an inch.

[kurtz]

thanks for all the supersonic load info guys....I'm still working on the bolt rifle (waiting for the barrel)....patwa, I sent you a PM about the range and my contact#....I got my 300 AR project finished but time at work has cut into my shooting time.....when I get pictures taken and load info field tested I'll post them....my AR project ended up being a SSK/DPMS with a 16" 1:8 barrel with and a SSK can....

[bluesdaddy]

Rebarreling a Savage/striker pistol to a 300 whisper, I know the 8 twist is Ideal but I found a 14 twist, Will this work at 15 1/2"? Thanks a Newbie

[ranger dave]

7oo is right on the money resize your .223 before you cut them down i wish thie web site was around in 1995 when i got my first whisper